The interview originally published in Latvian in news portal LA.lv.
Last week, the Council of Europe discussed the extension of sanctions against individuals and entities included in the EU sanctions list “in connection with restrictive measures against actions that undermine or threaten the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine”. During the discussion, a strange incident occurred that has not yet been explained. It concerns the position and actions of Latvia in relation to its citizen Petr Aven, as well as others who are not citizens of Latvia and who are open supporters and admirers of the current regime in Russia, whose release from sanctions the Latvian side for some reason accepted.
The reader may, of course, ask: why is Aven so important to us, why should we pay attention to this oligarch at all, why care about his well-being or comfort? Yes, these questions are important. However, in the current geopolitical situation, no less important is the background against which other European countries not only protect their interests, but also use them rationally. And if we think it is right to keep people like Aven under sanctions, then why are we silent about those who, thanks to the support of other European countries, receive unlimited freedom? Moreover, the Latvian side allegedly justified its tough position by internal political upheavals that could arise if Aven’s frozen assets were released. This contradicts the general sanctions policy, since sanctions cannot be used to resolve internal political issues. It is also important to understand that two of the four Russian citizens released from sanctions did business through economic infrastructure of Estonia. And the Estonians, along with the European “patron of security” Kaja Kallas, had no complaints about the release of the assets of these outspoken Putinists. Are Estonians fools? Or do they just have their own interests?
But if we think calmly, what are Latvia’s interests in relation to billionaire Aven? He is a citizen of Latvia, he lives here. Do we, as a state, understand what this man is doing here? Why is he here? The capital increase of his frozen assets last year was one and a half billion… The assets themselves amount to about ten billion. And this is under sanctions! Sooner or later he will get access to his bank accounts and funds anyway – after all, this is where things are heading, no matter how much the Latvian Foreign Minister may not like it. Should we turn him into a social pariah or a scapegoat? Why don’t we use Aven the way the Estonians or the Finns use Russian oligarchs?
In the Madona region, local “forest brothers” joke that they won’t hand over their fellow countryman to be torn apart – they’ll hide him in the forest… But no one here is tearing Aven apart. Moreover, we are doing nothing at all, which is wrong in the context of our national interests. We are doing nothing, except for going along with the confident statements of our “Komsomol members” that Aven cannot be removed from the sanctions list. By the way, Poland, at that strange session of the Council of Europe, in its draft removed Aven from the sanctions list until… the Latvian side made an appearance. What’s in it for the Poles? And for us?
Keeping in mind that war is irrational in itself, that innocent people die every day, why can’t we use the frozen capital of citizen Aven for the security of our country? If someone is bothered by his past in Russia, well, now we control his fate and resources. It sounds cynical, but isn’t Trump, who is now flirting with Russia and Ukraine, cynical too? And he represents the country that, according to foreign policy doctrines, is our main ally.
If the main mission of our nation is to protect Lenin, then we will forever remain… at the mausoleum in Moscow. But this in no way helps the Latvian state. Do we have many billionaires ready to cooperate with the state?
Bearing in mind the historical background and modern reality, Petr Aven is an asset to Latvia.
And if we have good cards in our hands, why not play them in the interests of the country? A person connected with Russia? Why in that case don’t we nail other people connected with Russia and living in Latvia to the same “moral cross” that we erected for Aven? Where are the graves with sanction wreaths for the Savickises, Ulmanises and Kalvītises, where are the gallows for the military men connected with Russia, where are the columbaria for the Chekists or the detention centres for businessmen from the gas and oil industries who still feed on Russia? Who in Latvia profited from the transit of manganese ore? Personally, I don’t feel strongly one way or another about Aven, but I find it disgusting that Latvia has neither a clear stance nor understanding here. Three years have passed since the start of the war, and our Prime Minister says that now we will have to draw up a plan for the development of the military industry… Here you have a perfect example of anti-state thinking and a threat to security.
The interview with Petr Aven took place in the building he owns in the centre of Riga, directly opposite the Museum of Art.
— Journalists usually prepare questions for interviews in advance, but I would like to start with your questions – what is on your mind right now?
— I am tormented by surprise and bewilderment about what happened last week in the Council of Europe – even The Financial Times wrote about it. As far as I understand from publicly available information, Latvia blocked my removal from the sanctions list. To me this is still incomprehensible, I am surprised and do not know whom to ask why this happened.
— Do you feel like this is unfair?
— Firstly, I think it is unfair, although, of course, at my age it is strange to still believe in a just world. Secondly, it is unreasonable. I sold my entire business in Russia, all my assets, I have been living in Latvia for three years now, I am a citizen of Latvia. For many years before that I was involved in charity work here, without thinking whether I would benefit from it or not. I simply helped people. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to call this situation unreasonable rather than unfair from the point of view of Latvia’s interests. Had my property not been frozen, I would have turned this building in the centre of Riga, where we are now talking, into a museum, an exhibition hall. It would have been one of the best museums in Europe – I have an impressive collection of world-class art, which, by the way, includes many works by Latvian artists. The museum would be useful to both the people and the state. But this is just one example. I would have continued to direct the funds to children’s healthcare, hospitals, welfare… The state would have received tens of millions of euros in taxes from my dividends alone, because I am a Latvian taxpayer. So I don’t understand who benefits from me remaining under sanctions?
— The sanctions came with the war, and the war is still ongoing. Maybe your prospects and everyday reality are currently dictated by military circumstances?
— The war continues, and people suffer, but I believe that this should not cancel rational thinking… I do not think that the current sanctions policy towards, for example, me, can somehow influence the course of the war. We are not talking about global economic sanctions, but about personal ones – against individual people.
— How exactly is the sanctions policy manifesting in your case? Tell us how you live, what you live on, so that we can understand the context.
— My funds are frozen in financial institutions, and the Latvian banking regulator determines how much and on what I can spend them. This concerns basic needs – food, housing… By the way, even the insurance and security of my art collection is paid for with the regulator’s permission. Since I have never lived lavishly – for example, I have never had a yacht or a private jet – this basic minimum is enough for me. I live in the forest not far from Madona, I have a house there, a household – I fish… I am writing a book – about the nineties, about the reforms in Russia, about the people who participated in them. After all, I was in the epicentre of these events, it has been a unique experience. This is purely for pleasure, I do not look for any meaning or subtext in this. I want to do it, so I do it. I lead a life of an ordinary 70-year-old pensioner, it is generally not burdensome.
That’s why I say – I personally have enough for my needs right now, but why my frozen funds can’t help others at this time – I don’t understand. In Bulgakov’s novel, Margarita tells the Master that a house by a stream, walks under cherry trees, Schubert’s music in the evenings, meetings with friends – this is a reward and happiness. However, given my personality, I would like to do something more. At the same time, I am grateful to the country that accepted me and to the people around me – they are very open-hearted and kind. Wonderful people live in the Madona region, the neighbours encourage me. But sanctions in general can be called something like house arrest.
— Many rich Russians left Russia when the war started. Then they came back there… You could have done the same, right?
— Behind every situation is its own story. Unlike others, I had a place to go to and a place to stay, because Latvia has always been my second home. The history of the Aven family began here, my grandfather left to see the world in 1915… Our family has many graves here, where my ancestors have been buried since mid-18th century. Here is where I feel at home, so I had no need for compromises under these circumstances.
— What have you learned about Latvia in these three years of living here? Surely there were some romantic ideas, illusions before…
— I realized that the historical tragedy of the Latvian people brought on by the 20th century left a deep mark on the nation. The repressions gravely affected our family. I know what repressions and deportations are (my Latvian great-grandmother died in Siberia), but, frankly speaking, it is only now that I truly see and realize the full depth of the psychological trauma that has affected Latvians. These wounds are very deep, and the internal fear that forms the peculiarities of mentality is impossible to understand from the outside perspective. I did not know this before. It seems that now I understand much better…
— Then you probably understand Latvian politicians better?
— I am not so deeply immersed in Latvian politics, although I vote and therefore understand who is in power now, what coalitions exist, and so on. At the same time, active politics does not interest me, I will definitely never engage in it. This was also the case in Russia, when I was a minister in a technocratic government that needed to carry out economic reforms rather than to play politics. I have never been a member of any party (I was not a member of the CPSU), and I definitely will not be for the rest of my life.
— Are you acquainted with Latvian politicians?
— I headed the Russia-Latvia Business Council for many years, so I had the opportunity to meet with the presidents of Latvia – Freiberga, Zatlers, Bērziņš – and other statesmen. But in the current government, as far as I know, I have never met anyone personally, let alone become close friends with them.
— Russia isn’t calling you back?
— What do you mean by Russia? If you mean my friends who stayed there, who live and work there – I am in touch with them. As for the authorities – they definitely don’t care about me.
— Living in Latvia, do you now see Russia from a different side?
— Don’t get me wrong – I’m not a politician, I’m a businessman, a private person. I really don’t want to speak on this topic, much less make public statements.
— What’s happening with your business in Russia?
— I sold it. I had two large assets – a bank and an insurance company. This money, by the way, is also frozen – a permission is needed to use it.
— From the Russian authorities?
— From the European regulator. We have received an authorisation to sell assets from the regulator in Cyprus, but it is assumed that a special permission is needed to use these funds.
— When the Council of Europe discussed the issue of sanctions last week, did you know that this could affect you too? Were you preparing for a particular scenario, looking for lobbyists?
— I have good friends in almost all European countries whom I could ask questions. I did not do anything specifically because my business partner Fridman and I won a case in the EU Court of Justice, where it was recognized that our business and activities were not connected with the Russian military complex, that we were not involved or responsible for the course of the war. Moreover, we sold the Russian business as well. It seemed that we were doing everything right…
— Still, several Russian citizens were removed from the sanctions list. Do you know them? Do you understand the algorithm of these decisions?
— I know Moshe Kantor. I don’t know the others, those from whom the sanctions were lifted. I also don’t understand how the procedures in the Council of Europe work at all.
— At first, there was even news that your partner Fridman was released from sanctions…
— Yes, and I congratulated him… A few hours later, his status was changed again. Why this is so – you have to ask those who are in the thick of it. But I received a lot of surprised messages from my friends – they say that several Russian citizens were removed from the list, meanwhile Latvia fought for its citizen to definitely remain on the list. This is a bit puzzling, because usually countries protect their citizens and interests. In this case, it was the other way round – Latvia allegedly very aggressively opposed Aven, because this could threaten internal stability. How – I don’t understand. I have not been involved in politics here and certainly will not be, but I have no doubt that I can be of use to Latvia. So, naturally, I am very upset.
— Perhaps you did not send the correct message to the Latvian authorities? For example, could it be that you did not explain what would happen if you were removed from the sanctions list?
— I talked about investments and plans… Did I have a dialogue with representatives of the Latvian government?
— If you are talking about dialogue, does that mean there were answers, discourse, promises?
— I guess you can’t call it a dialogue in the classic sense, because the officials’ answers to all my initiatives were: we’ll see, we’ll take it into account. I wrote letters, received responses that the information was taken into consideration.
— You said that you are writing a book about the 1990s in Russia, you mentioned reforms… I remember that a year and a half ago in an interview you mentioned the word “reforms” in the context of the Latvian economy. Do you have any ideas on this issue?
— I don’t want to burden anyone with my ideas, and I especially don’t want to look like a politician. If someone asked me for advice, I would gladly share my ideas.
— Can you name a couple of things that you think the Latvian economy needs?
— I won’t. For the same reasons that I don’t publicly discuss political situation in Russia.
— I’m not asking about politics, only about the Latvian economy.
— About economy? I can give a lecture, but I don’t want to – so as not to offend anyone.
— What about the Russian economy?
— In the summer of 2022, I gave a lecture at the Council for Foreign Relations, the largest think tank in the United States, where I said that the Russian economy is more resilient than it seems, and the current system of global sanctions will not affect it as much as expected.
— Are you still giving lectures?
— I would like to, but my metaphorical house arrest rules it out. I am sitting in Latvia, not quite in a golden cage, but in a cage, nonetheless.
— Do you feel wronged by Latvia?
— No. I fully understand the emotional background. And also, that given my biography it is difficult to be loved by many. I am first of all grateful for my life here today. But I repeat, I am very upset. In the matter of sanctions, Latvia could act more rationally.
— What will happen next to Petr Aven?
— Don’t expect a suicide… Whatever will be, will be. I’m 70 years old, not much time left. I’d like to do something more. Of course, there is a keen sense of time passing. But there is also a constant feeling of support from many. So, as Brodsky wrote: “only gratitude”.